Breach and Clear Training

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    reclaimer_117

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    Breach and Clear Training

    Post by reclaimer_117 on Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:32 pm

    I'm just curious to see if anyone else would be interested in practicing some squad based breach and clear tactics.

    In my opinion a breach and clear of a possibly occupied house is an essential tactic on almost any game mode, especially squad rush. I think that practicing this would really help us develop some more teamwork and also teach some new skills in the process.

    Anyways just wanted to know if anyone would be interested in having a "clan event" type thing where we just go on servers, or private matches even, and just practice how to effectively use our squads to breach a house from wherever.

    I think it would be a good thing to practice personally. Please off up your opinions.
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    Re: Breach and Clear Training

    Post by Moliat on Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:49 pm

    Absolutely! It's something I've thought of for a good while. When entering buildings we need to cover different directions and do it effectively. It is really quite simple so if we just implement a system for it, developed by excercising and experimenting with it (it doesn't even require much).


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    Re: Breach and Clear Training

    Post by Abahab on Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:52 pm

    I prefer just blowing the building up.


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    Re: Breach and Clear Training

    Post by reclaimer_117 on Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:57 pm

    I think a way we could do this would be to make a private squad rush map and situate one team inside of a building. The the squad leader will have a few seconds to position his squad around the building. Based on how many people die from the attackers would be a pretty good gauge of how well it would actually work. We could also experiment with different defensive positions when your inside the building.
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    Re: Breach and Clear Training

    Post by kakkura49 on Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:12 pm

    the way we did it in Team Punishment was grenade through windows "bottom floor" and then two man breach squad after detonation. on the same door, you'd look on the opposite side of the person who's on the other side of the doorway. as to say the guy on the right looks left, and the guy on the left looks right, as they are entering. This is how the U.S. Marines breach and clear. I can show you at some point if you'd like. but i think i'd need a mic to do so.
    But I agree. Its important to make breaching tactics a second nature thing rather that just running into a house and getting shot up.


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    Re: Breach and Clear Training

    Post by riafomh on Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:00 am

    Right on everyone, right on.


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    Re: Breach and Clear Training

    Post by Max on Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:19 pm

    I chuck a motion sensor at the house in question before anything else, whether it's me going in or I have to lob one across the length of a football field for someone else. First floor clear by looking through windows, then chuck a grenade up the stairs to the second and listen for any yelps. Next look directly in front of the stairs before you go up, then as you partially climb the stairs check the hole to the attic for anybody as well as behind the stairs and the doorway to the second room all in one sweeping motion.


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    Re: Breach and Clear Training

    Post by riafomh on Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:57 pm

    Max wrote:I chuck a motion sensor at the house in question before anything else, whether it's me going in or I have to lob one across the length of a football field for someone else. First floor clear by looking through windows, then chuck a grenade up the stairs to the second and listen for any yelps. Next look directly in front of the stairs before you go up, then as you partially climb the stairs check the hole to the attic for anybody as well as behind the stairs and the doorway to the second room all in one sweeping motion.

    Nice procedure. Anyone want to offer up a 2-man approach?


    Last edited by riafomh on Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:36 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Breach and Clear Training

    Post by riafomh on Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:00 pm

    kakkura49 wrote:the way we did it was grenade through windows "bottom floor" and then two man breach squad after detonation. on the same door, you'd look on the opposite side of the person who's on the other side of the doorway. as to say the guy on the right looks left, and the guy on the left looks right, as they are entering. This is how the U.S. Marines breach and clear. But I agree. Its important to make breaching tactics a second nature thing rather that just running into a house and getting shot up.

    I like this approach, I think it's quite effective. This works good in other situations and circumstances, such as running up behind cover; one person should create a field of fire in one direction, and others falling in behind should create fields of fire in other direction(s). So often several people bunch up behind cover and everyone is looking the same way.


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    Re: Breach and Clear Training

    Post by riafomh on Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:59 pm

    riafomh wrote:
    Max wrote:I chuck a motion sensor at the house in question before anything else, whether it's me going in or I have to lob one across the length of a football field for someone else. First floor clear by looking through windows, then chuck a grenade up the stairs to the second and listen for any yelps. Next look directly in front of the stairs before you go up, then as you partially climb the stairs check the hole to the attic for anybody as well as behind the stairs and the doorway to the second room all in one sweeping motion.

    Nice procedure. Anyone want to offer up a 2-man approach?

    2-Man at the stairs:

    Most stairs have a standard (reversed) 'L' to them. Defenders like to position themselves typically at the top of the stairs (firing in the face of anyone coming up), and behind the railing on the 2nd floor over the first little landing below (firing in the back of anyone coming up). While looking to the top of the stairs is natural for anyone going up them, checking that rear above the landing can be tricky; this is where a 2nd man is useful.

    At the bottom of the stairs before even the first little flight to the landing, if one swings into the little area there alongside that little flight of steps, you can aim up and cover that 2nd floor railing above the small landing, or even ideally, throw a grenade up there. Careful, as enemies there are likely to be watching for you, also.

    So if you are a 2-Man team, you should coordinate this together.

    Don't go running up the stairs ahead of time only to get shot. Wait for your wingman to swing into cover-that-upper-railing-position or even engaging an enemy there, and then covering the top of the stairs make your way up them, the faster the better, without getting killed.

    Now for upstairs:

    Most of the upstairs have a similar layout and relationship to the stairway that leads up to them. If you consider the first level bit of flooring you walk on at the top of the stairs to be the first 'room' (including the top of the stairs), then you should be familiar with the 2nd, smaller 'room' adjoining (often with an M-Comm in it). The doorways are open (no doors), and one opening is more or less at the top of the stairs and the other opening comes out at the railing which runs around the stairwell below.

    So when a 2-Man team goes up the stairs, one (leading) should be covering (ahead) the top of the stairs, and the other (trailing) should be covering (rear guard) the railing above the stairs. As you get up the stairs, it is natural for the first man to continue his movement in a sweep around to the nearby doorway; his rear guard wingman who is already facing the other rear doorway that comes out over the railing (and who is quite possibly moving backwards up the stairs) should advance towards the other doorway. The two come together in a pincer movement, and meet in the middle.

    At any time if you make contact, both of you should stop until Tango down, perhaps even temporarily doubling up on the Tango until he is down, and going back to covering your field of fire. Otherwise you run the risk of one of you going down and the enemy who killed him having a flank or rear attack on the one remaining, who has 'run ahead'.

    Now what would back all this up beautifully of course? A third man, a Medic ideally, to revive the first two and keep the sweep going. Also, a third man on the stairs could cover the ladder and the opening to the attic above.

    Now in the heat of battle of course nothing is going to go perfectly like my little example here and people will be out of position and so forth, timing will be footloose and chaotic, and, well, like warfare.

    But this is one basic concept that I propose.

    Even having this basic template as a premise, when a bunch of us are running up about to do this, simply knowing that the 1st Man covers this direction, 2nd Man covers this direction, 3rd Man covers....

    You get the idea. Any thoughts?


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    Re: Breach and Clear Training

    Post by Moliat on Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:15 am

    This manouver, or tactic if you will, should be incorporated in our gameplay. It is not a difficult thing to make an automatic and natural part of our teamwork, and I say we start drilling on this as soon as possible.

    Even the most casual players in the clan should start practicing this as it is easy and simply to execute, and will help us tremendously when we play. Secondary effects of incorporating this into our gameplay will be that the coordination and teamwork of this manouver will translate to other situations, like when we move up or secure an open area.

    I will be running drills on this during our next clan event (Saturday 18th December) for those interested in starting with this manouver as soon as possible.


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    Re: Breach and Clear Training

    Post by kakkura49 on Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:33 am

    Absolutely. Like I said, my old clan used this method all of the time. what we went by is either you blow up the house, or don't even go inside. If you can't clear the building, don't waste the tickets. Just blow the hell out of the walls and try to make it worthless to the enemy, or clear it the proper way. But as Moliat said; It may sound complex, but it's easy enough to get into the habit of doing. It's like learning to use the Helicopters. just practice, practice, practice. = )

    I can get you started and come up with some basic ideas that will work standard for all classes.


    Ria said; if its two story building, toss a grenade in the upstairs then clear the first floor. Also, pay attention because enemy troops will yell out if they are near a grenade.
    -not sure if that was all ria, but you get what im sayin.

    MAIN RULES OF BREACHING:
    Always look before entering,
    NEVER reload while entering an unknown building. {Bad things happen = P}
    Try to take your time, and look behind you when walking upstairs.
    Try not to knife doors and windows. Your person will yell out when he does, and enemies can hear you, and you may get messed up. {learned the hard way}
    Last but not least;
    (( When in doubt, get the hell out.))


    Last edited by kakkura49 on Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Breach and Clear Training

    Post by kakkura49 on Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:42 am

    One more thing, Ria, I love your tactics. Very good, =D but we do still need to keep em all simple. Not that these aren't simple, but it's got to be second nature if we want them to work = )
    And expect me there Moliat, I love tactics in games. Room clearance isn't as major of a thing as other tactics, but its good to have in our arsenal.
    Room clearance isn't always a team effort. I always use it when i play with you fellas, and Thank you to reclaimer for starting this post Very Happy


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    Re: Breach and Clear Training

    Post by Moliat on Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:02 am

    Like you said Kakurra: it's got to become second nature if we are to do this automatically, effectively and naturally. Of course we'll have more complex strategies, but these will require direct focus to pull off, hence we can't afford to waste efforts focusing hard on simple stuff like room clearing and covering each other as we advance.

    kakkura49 wrote:(( When in doubt, get the hell out.))

    Or my way: when in doubt, empty the magazine.


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    Re: Breach and Clear Training

    Post by riafomh on Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:24 am

    Yeah, they are meant to be simple - sometimes I get a little over-explainy and while I don't mean to describe every footstep I am trying to be descriptively clear so that people can visualize themselves clearly in the space.

    Grenades. Did I not mention grenades? Yeah, of course tossing one in ahead is generally good - I play on Hardcore quite a bit so my instincts are to be careful with grenades, as often you blow yourself up with them (or someone else's), especially if you run in the room after them... just like IRL....


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    Re: Breach and Clear Training

    Post by L4N6Y on Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:07 am

    I'm just a trialist so I could do with as much training as possible so I'm up for it Smile
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    Re: Breach and Clear Training

    Post by reclaimer_117 on Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:45 pm

    I think there was an article up on Gamereplays a few weeks ago about the same sort of breach and clear tactics, or something along the lines of building demolition. I will try to find the link later, either way it had some very nice photos of the basic layouts of all the building types in Badcompany 2. I'll try to get posting those when I find them. Perhaps we could even have a dedicated forum page for them? A gallery of possible enemy defensive positions in houses, and members offer up suggestions on how to most effectively enter the house. This could even all be done just using MS Paint, dots for baddies, jagged lines for explosions, lines for movement patterns.

    I also think its important to pull up this little tidbit I learned from watching T.V. a while back. If you storm into a building stacked right behind one another and with a big bang accompanying your entry, the defender will generally get confused about who to choose as a primary target. Not sure how well this will work in BC2 since bullets go through people, but hey I think it's worth a shot.

    EDIT: found the link, it contains a bunch of useful photos that show the layout of different building types, I will probably start a little basic editing on them soon, getting rid of some things and generally making them better for Breach and Clear strategy drawing.

    http://www.gamereplays.org/badcompany2/portals.php?show=page&name=bc2-strategies-guides-its-all-about-buildings
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    Re: Breach and Clear Training

    Post by Forum Owner on Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:53 pm

    Just visit them on Gamereplays please. I want comments and stuff for my writers to go there. Smile
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    Re: Breach and Clear Training

    Post by Nuclear Pepsi on Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:55 pm

    Moliat wrote:This manouver, or tactic if you will, should be incorporated in our gameplay. It is not a difficult thing to make an automatic and natural part of our teamwork, and I say we start drilling on this as soon as possible.

    Even the most casual players in the clan should start practicing this as it is easy and simply to execute, and will help us tremendously when we play. Secondary effects of incorporating this into our gameplay will be that the coordination and teamwork of this manouver will translate to other situations, like when we move up or secure an open area.

    I will be running drills on this during our next clan event (Saturday 18th December) for those interested in starting with this manouver as soon as possible.

    Well I would be considered one of the more "casual" players in the clan but I'd love to work on this, when are we doing it?
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    Re: Breach and Clear Training

    Post by riafomh on Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:19 pm

    Nuclear Pepsi wrote:
    Moliat wrote:This manouver, or tactic if you will, should be incorporated in our gameplay. It is not a difficult thing to make an automatic and natural part of our teamwork, and I say we start drilling on this as soon as possible.

    Even the most casual players in the clan should start practicing this as it is easy and simply to execute, and will help us tremendously when we play. Secondary effects of incorporating this into our gameplay will be that the coordination and teamwork of this manouver will translate to other situations, like when we move up or secure an open area.

    I will be running drills on this during our next clan event (Saturday 18th December) for those interested in starting with this manouver as soon as possible.

    Well I would be considered one of the more "casual" players in the clan but I'd love to work on this, when are we doing it?

    <Shaking Head>

    Oh Nuclear....

    You quoted Moliat right there - "next clan event (Saturday 18th December)" and then ask "when are we doing it?"

    Sleep


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    Re: Breach and Clear Training

    Post by Moliat on Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:05 am

    I guess that answers your question, Nuclear Smile


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    Re: Breach and Clear Training

    Post by Forum Owner on Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:59 am

    LOL . Fuck what a fail. :P

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    Re: Breach and Clear Training

    Post by kakkura49 on Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:05 am

    It's something I would do too, no worries XD hahahha


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    Re: Breach and Clear Training

    Post by riafomh on Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:30 pm

    I've certainly been a boob myself at times...


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    Re: Breach and Clear Training

    Post by Moliat on Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:42 pm

    I parked the wrong side of the car towards the fuel pump one time. Twice that same evening. In other words; I'm not going to say something :p


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