Who's Got That Job

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    riafomh
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    Who's Got That Job

    Post by riafomh on Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:40 am

    Hey everyone. This topic is inspired by a conversation online with Moliat. One area we can tighten up our game a little is in task-specific leadership and communication.

    I'll explain the 'leadership' aspect later.

    Often in a match, a specific threat materializes such as a tank, helicopter, manning of a heavy MG, Recon cooking marshmellows, what-have-you. The squad captain (or indeed, ANYONE) calls out the threat, ordering it to be taken care of. Often in the middle of battle it is difficult to know exactly where people are situated and who is in a position to deal with it. When things are specific (Bob - take out the Blackhawk), it's not a problem. But when it is a general order for someone to handle, sometimes there is NO communication around it. It may be 2 seconds, or several minutes, before someone gets on it (or not at all).

    Is 1 person dealing with it? Or 4? Or no one? Is it done?

    What we need are some simple basic protocols here and some 'can do' attitudes from within the squads.

    When these 'tasks' come up, if/when someone jumps in to take it on, say so. A simple "I'm on it." can suffice, especially if the comms are busy. I think for clarity it is better to be a little more specific, such as "I've got the Tank", "Coming in with Ammo", "Bob after Heli", etc. (Especially with all the new members/trialists it is hard to know everyone's voices - I often find myself asking "Who said that?")

    The same goes for completion: "2nd Floor Clear", "Manning MG", or (everybody's favorite) "Blackhawk down".

    Or failure: "I'm down", "Tank got through", "Out of Tracers", etc.

    Or numbers: If your job is manning a Tank, and you are being backed up or are going to back up the tank with some Engineers then it is important to know how many people are doing that.

    - "The Abrams just spawned in our base."
    - "Somebody grab it and bring it up the Left Flank. We need to hammer those buildings that they're covering the road from."
    - "I'm on it."
    - "Great. Who said that?"
    - "Fffssto - "
    - "SHIT!! SECOND FLOOR SECOND FLOOR - sorry, what was that?"
    - "Bob. Taking Tank now."
    - "Going Engi to back him up. Oh, uh, Bill."
    - "Right on, Bill. Go you guys, go."

    You get the idea...

    We need fast, clear, reports of things, who's on it and how many, if/when it is done (or not), and right away. For those of you familiar with my concept of Initiative, these things can help up to 'win the Initiative' again and again.

    About 'Leadership':

    Now I know sometimes when one of these 'general orders' comes down that circumstances on the field may make you 'resistant' to taking it on. Sometimes, obviously, you shouldn't. You are already engaged on the front line, covering the M-Comm, or what have you.

    But sometimes you are just sitting there waiting for that enemy you just spotted who ran around the corner of the building to come out the other side, and sure there are several other guys nearby covering the house, but you could really use the points....

    Besides, someone else will take care of it, won't they?....

    I think you all know where I am going with this. I think this is sometimes why several minutes go by before we realize that NO ONE is handling a particular problem.

    If you can take on the just-issued task, do it.

    It shows initiative. It shows teamwork. It shows that you are thinking about more than just yourself. Sure, although you are technically 'following orders', what it really shows is - LEADERSHIP.

    It's really all about getting the job done, and that's what Leaders do - get the job done.


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    kakkura49
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    Re: Who's Got That Job

    Post by kakkura49 on Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:07 am

    Absolutely. As you've recognized, I'm always happy to comply with an order. I know a lot of dedicated DFA members who've been here longer than me can say that x10. Smile - My recommendation is instead of saying "someone take out that MG!", we call out "Who's Task effective?" and then whoever isn't particularly busy, and can comply with a task, would say "bob!" or whoever it is who can do so.
    Exmpl..
    you call out
    "Task effective?"
    you hear
    -"Kakkura"
    -"Kazo"
    and now you have the people who can follow your word, and take out big baddies.
    "Okay, kakkura and kazo, Wipe that tank out thats on the east side."

    This way, if five people are task effective, we can specify for SELECT PEOPLE to do the task, instead of five people going after one order, and loosing the front lines. : )
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    Re: Who's Got That Job

    Post by kakkura49 on Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:12 am

    Of course, you wouldn't call out somebody else's name XD lol wanted to clarify that :P


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    Re: Who's Got That Job

    Post by riafomh on Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:09 am

    Good ideas. On some of the large maps especially it might be good also to know who is "Task Effective - East Side?" so that someone isn't dispatched from too far away.


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    Re: Who's Got That Job

    Post by Psyco Karma on Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:49 am

    Communication is one the biggest let downs that this game provides. Its supposed to be a tactical shooter, meaning that coordination with other players is required, however; the game only allows you to speak to 3 other people in your squad. 7 other people if you are lucky enough to be in an Xbox live party. So, we as a clan are penalized before the game even starts. We are not able to coordinate with our entire clan all at once so it makes the few people you are able to talk to... that much more important.

    The following is a list of things I noticed, you can take it or leave it. Just my two cents.

    - Many people in the game (not just this clan) will 'sometimes' spot and call out a target. They may say,"Theres a dude behind you!" Or "Theres a guy left!" There are a few problems with this. First, whos left are you talking about? Your left or mine? More often than not, I find it is not my left nor is it behind me. As a clan, I would find it easier if we used a system already in place in the world. simple directions. North, south, east, west. Make a fixed north in every board.

    If we are walking in formation down the street, and our rear security guy sees a dude down an alley on the right side mabey they he can say 'Action right.' Meaning everyone in his immediate formation will turn right and start shooting. But, how often do players stay in formation? I have never seen it done in this game yet. Most of the players would rather run around in circles randomly with out any care of getting shot at.

    Before I get too carried away ill make this quick. I find myself deleting alot before I rant. So, you ask what is your point? My point is this, if you are running around in circles by yourself.. at least run in an area that is relatively easy for me to revive you. And never say,"Theres a dude left."



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    Re: Who's Got That Job

    Post by kakkura49 on Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:23 am

    riafomh wrote:Good ideas. On some of the large maps especially it might be good also to know who is "Task Effective - East Side?" so that someone isn't dispatched from too far away.
    I like that idea! Very Happy

    And to psychokarma; I agree mostly, but in the heat of a battle its difficult to accurately portray a hostiles location without getting a little 'religious' in the process. :P
    Whenever I give a shout of a position, i am descriptive.
    "Sniper shooting out of the red building to the right of A, second floor."
    Since i don't have a mic, i havnt been able to do this.. but ill be back in a week or so.

    That being said, Its neccisary that we first determine what we are talking about with NSEW or left right etc.. Right refers to the right side when looking at the map on the start menu. Meaning no matter where you are, Right left forward and back is all the same place, regardless of team. Hopefully this becomes standard.

    My opinion is we go military.
    When informing a person of a nearby hostile }} "Hostile at YOUR 4oclock, bob."
    When informing team of a hostile near an objective }} "Hostile to the right of A"

    Being descriptive is important as well }}
    "Bob, Hostile at your 4 by the green shack"
    "Hostile just ran into that garage over to the right of A"
    and so on Smile

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    Re: Who's Got That Job

    Post by Moliat on Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:32 am

    PsychoKarma wrote:
    - Many people in the game (not just this clan) will 'sometimes' spot and call out a target. They may say,"Theres a dude behind you!" Or "Theres a guy left!" There are a few problems with this. First, whos left are you talking about? Your left or mine? More often than not, I find it is not my left nor is it behind me. As a clan, I would find it easier if we used a system already in place in the world. simple directions. North, south, east, west. Make a fixed north in every board.

    What you are describing is the exact explanation of a system we are currently using. We always define the geographical north to be towards the enemy spawn. It's just that we have had a lot of new people in our games lately, people I am still trying to get to use the geographical north system. We'll get there, and I'll be more strict about it from now on.


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    Re: Who's Got That Job

    Post by Moliat on Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:34 pm

    This was more apparent than ever tonight. People did not communicate, they did not follow orders, they did not co-operate, it even cost us to lose a game. With 6 people with the DFA tag on the same team!

    It's basic stuff: you pay attention, you call out enemies, you respond when given an order, you take initiative if something is happening, and you play like a damn member of DFA.


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    Re: Who's Got That Job

    Post by kakkura49 on Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:45 pm

    Moliat wrote:
    It's basic stuff: you pay attention, you call out enemies, you respond when given an order, you take initiative if something is happening, and you play like a damn member of DFA.

    I did my best without having a mic. I spotted enemies, followed class orders & attack/defend orders. The only issue was you called me as a recon and told me to do a rifleman's job. >.> I can hit people from a good range, and im ok at CQC, recon or not. The thing is, I need a heads up on which im doing. besides that; On Nelson bay where I was ordered to man an MG and provide supressive fire for the west flank, I was constantly killed and killed and killed because I was flanked from the east side. I would have advised this if i had a mic, so there wasn't much that could be done {blame my damn cat lol} In all honesty, Moliat, I did my best.
    = /
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    Re: Who's Got That Job

    Post by Moliat on Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:53 pm

    [quote="kakkura49"]
    Moliat wrote:
    In all honesty, Moliat, I did my best.

    I'm not pointing any fingers, and quite frankly: you're excused. We had a lot of trialists in there which probably explains a lot of it, I know that with 4 long-standing members of the clan we'd rape them in an instant, so I say the trialists are partially to blame. As a team we played like shit, if you will excuse the blunt language, which is why I emphasized what I did in the above post. Don't get me wrong however; I say it's mostly due to the trialists, but that is because none of them have been drilled in our tactics. Come to think about it, few of our newest members and trialists have.

    This is why I am going to make things more tactical again. I want it so that no matter who from DFA I invite to a squad, we will completely steamroll the enemy. It used to be like it, but now our performance has been degraded due to the high number of new members we have. They all have the potential to reach the level of our old-school members when it comes to co-operation and teamwork, and all it is going to take is a little practice. I have all the confidence in the potential and development of the newest additions to our clan, they wouldn't be members if I didn't, and it's not going to take long to get there if all focus a little harder when playing with trialists, to show them how we really do things.


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    Re: Who's Got That Job

    Post by kakkura49 on Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:03 pm

    Maybe a private match? I could use a few pointers as well, DFA tactic wise. but overall tactics and fighting techniques as well as flanking and spotting, im good with.


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    Re: Who's Got That Job

    Post by riafomh on Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:19 pm

    I think it is important that EVERYONE reviews our standard tactics and communications protocols. Although it is right there in the forums for all to read, who is and who isn't?

    Before, people had to reply that they had read the tactics manual. Do they still?

    Perhaps new trialists (and even old members) should have to not just reply, but answer a short questionnaire which tests them on whether they actually read or know the stuff.

    But yeah, back to you, Psycho - the standard is that North is towards the enemy's spawn/base, South is towards ours, West/Left and East/Right is again in relationship to FACING the enemy spawn/base. It is important to be clear that this IS NOT Map-North and Map-South as it would be if you pulled up your map from the Start Menu, but in fact from facing your enemy from your base.

    Clear?


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    Re: Who's Got That Job

    Post by kakkura49 on Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:29 pm

    riafomh wrote:the standard is that North is towards the enemy's spawn/base, South is towards ours, West/Left and East/Right is again in relationship to FACING the enemy spawn/base. It is important to be clear that this IS NOT Map-North and Map-South as it would be if you pulled up your map from the Start Menu, but in fact from facing your enemy from your base.

    Clear?
    ...Sorry, my mistake. >_>"


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    Re: Who's Got That Job

    Post by riafomh on Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:36 pm

    kakkura49 wrote:
    riafomh wrote:the standard is that North is towards the enemy's spawn/base, South is towards ours, West/Left and East/Right is again in relationship to FACING the enemy spawn/base. It is important to be clear that this IS NOT Map-North and Map-South as it would be if you pulled up your map from the Start Menu, but in fact from facing your enemy from your base.

    Clear?
    ...Sorry, my mistake. >_>"

    Be not sorry, young sir.

    Your ideas are good, mostly right on. This is what we have been doing, but certainly if there is a better way we should not be so stuck as to not do it. Calling out "Enemy your 4 o'clock" sounds good to me. Doesn't get much clearer than that... The other works well as a general reference to the whole board, especially when you don't know at what 'clock position' it is relative to someone specific. Also, with the slight delay between when you say something and when it is heard on the headsets, if someone turns even a few degrees (as is often likely) then their '4 o'clock' reference will have changed.


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    Re: Who's Got That Job

    Post by riafomh on Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:11 pm

    - "Moliat 2 o'clock"
    - "Kakkura 9 o'clock"

    Works pretty good, I think. The Who and Where are succinct and immediate.

    Could follow up with:
    - "2nd Floor"
    - "Green House"
    - "Etc"
    (just as succinct)


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    Re: Who's Got That Job

    Post by Forum Owner on Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:57 am

    We need to label buildings with terms that are common between all of us. Smile
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    Re: Who's Got That Job

    Post by riafomh on Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:08 am

    Crush wrote:We need to label buildings with terms that are common between all of us. Smile

    Actually, the link by (Kakkura I think) on Breach and Clear Tactics (under that Topic Heading) is quite good for this, Crush.

    http://www.gamereplays.org/badcompany2/portals.php?show=page&name=bc2-strategies-guides-its-all-about-buildings


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    Re: Who's Got That Job

    Post by Forum Owner on Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:10 am

    OH right Dans article, I'll read it again when I have some time. Smile
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    Re: Who's Got That Job

    Post by Undead x Jamie on Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:24 am

    I think before each game you play you nominate a squad leader/captain to give orders like flank from the east and what not.
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    Re: Who's Got That Job

    Post by Undead x Jamie on Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:35 am

    That is a very good tactic article
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    Re: Who's Got That Job

    Post by Moliat on Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:39 am

    Undead x Jamie (Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:24 pm) wrote:I think before each game you play you nominate a squad leader/captain to give orders like flank from the east and what not.

    We already do. Check the clan roster, it has a listing of our squad captains Smile


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    Re: Who's Got That Job

    Post by Undead x Jamie on Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:54 pm

    Ahk fair enough

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